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Old 01-25-2007, 01:39 PM   #101
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Talking Re: Ep2. Canned!!!! <<< MOST DEFINITELY

loooooooooooooooooooollercaust

owned.

Get a clue, fgts.
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Old 01-25-2007, 05:18 PM   #102
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This is a sad day for all SiNners, it's a shame, was looking forward to it, plus I really don't like MumboJumbo's games, RIP Blade
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Old 01-27-2007, 07:35 AM   #103
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ok. lovely. so i trhow away 20 dollars. yeah.

well, ritual. go to hell and have fun, i won't buy whatever game you are developing.
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:34 AM   #104
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

Excerp from something I've written here back in 2005:
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Originally Posted by Apprentice View Post
SIN on the Source engine is pretty intersting but using Steam to distribute the game is probably going to be Ritual's biggest mistake, if not the actual downfall.
Guess I'm right . . .

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Old 01-27-2007, 11:59 AM   #105
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Excerp from something I've written here back in 2005:

Guess I'm right . . .
Though there was a retail too of course. I think it's biggest problem was that: 1) It was a thoroughly average game and 2) People don't want to buy into episodic gaming. HL2 Episode 1 was successful because it was directly continuing a successful game. It's really just an expansion pack, and it's a hell of a lot easier to sell an expansion pack to a successful game than it is to try to established a completely new franchise (effectively, since Sin was long dead) through little episodes.
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Old 01-28-2007, 05:32 PM   #106
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

So does this really mean that Sin Episodes is cancelled? I mean, it wasn't said anywhere that it was. I'd figure that Ritual themselves would have made an announcement.
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Old 01-28-2007, 06:03 PM   #107
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So does this really mean that Sin Episodes is cancelled?
Yes!

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I mean, it wasn't said anywhere that it was.
No news = bad news. For examples: Duke Nukem forever & Starcraft: Ghost. Titles which have been announced, but never saw the light of day nor even spoken about by their developers and SiN: Episode 2 will have the dubious honour to be added to the list of vaporware . . .

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I'd figure that Ritual themselves would have made an announcement.
If wishes were horses, my friend . . .

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Old 01-28-2007, 06:15 PM   #108
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

Okay then... I guess that this indeed lessens my respect for Ritual as a company, but in fact I do believe that some of them will be disappointed about this outcome too... I wonder what's going to happen. I mean, whether ANYTHING is going to happen - reminds me of the years after Sin 1.

Aw man, I don't know what to say. Guess another dream come true is destroyed.
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Old 01-28-2007, 06:34 PM   #109
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So does this really mean that Sin Episodes is cancelled? I mean, it wasn't said anywhere that it was. I'd figure that Ritual themselves would have made an announcement.
Actually, the CEO of MumboJumbo pretty much confirmed it was cancelled:

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=15054
Quote:
"The idea of acquiring Ritual was to have them strengthen our development in the casual genre and not to have them involved at all in the action style games," Cottam explained. "If there's an opportunity to have them do something on the SiN episodes, we would look at that, but that will not be the focus of the company. The combined companies will focus exclusively on casual, unless opportunities present themselves that we think are strategic from a business standpoint... Again, I wouldn't close the door on [traditional games] but that's not the primary focus."
He is supposedly "leaving the door open", but I wouldn't really put any faith into that. It's just business rhetoric.

If in the very unlikely point they do decide to enter the traditional game market, it will have been so long since Episode 1 that it wouldn't make any sense to put out an Episode 2. Also given the lackluster performance of the Sin franchise in two outings now I don't think any business would consider it "strategic" to try a third game.
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:26 PM   #110
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Jeez, I think I've completely lost faith in north american game development. It's just turned into another entertainment industry, following the same path as music, movies and TV. Someone could write a book about how money turns everything to crap. I wonder how long we'll have to wait for things to even out to the point where actual quality can once again leak in.
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:37 PM   #111
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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No news = bad news. For examples: Duke Nukem forever & Starcraft: Ghost. Titles which have been announced, but never saw the light of day nor even spoken about by their developers and SiN: Episode 2 will have the dubious honour to be added to the list of vaporware . . .
Now, now. StarCraft: Ghost was talked about, and its cancellation was announced. That's definitely the exception rather than the rule; I can't say I'm entirely ungrateful that MumboJumbo's CEO said flat-out that the series is dead for the time being, joining those rare exceptions.

Michael Russell has posted an interesting analysis of just what happened to Ritual. Emergence did pay for itself, which leads me to wonder just why MumboJumbo isn't continuing development of Sin Episodes. Even if it's not a huge moneymaker, it'd certainly help curb the illwill being felt against them. But then, I suppose that those feeling it aren't their target market.

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Old 01-28-2007, 10:40 PM   #112
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Jeez, I think I've completely lost faith in north american game development. It's just turned into another entertainment industry, following the same path as music, movies and TV.
It's been that way for years, Shoelip. You could argue that as early as the mid-80s it was that way, with The Bard's Tale II and III--cheap sequels bashed out using the same engine to capitalize on the success of the original. Or Doom II for a more commercially successful example. Were they fun? Yeah. Were they innovative as their predecessors were? No way.

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Old 01-29-2007, 12:11 AM   #113
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Now, now. StarCraft: Ghost was talked about, and its cancellation was announced. That's definitely the exception rather than the rule; I can't say I'm entirely ungrateful that MumboJumbo's CEO said flat-out that the series is dead for the time being, joining those rare exceptions.
The only thing I saw of Starcraft: Ghost was that it was being on-hold indefinetely. Other then that, I didn't see any screenshots or stories/blogs posted about it . . .

Quote:
Michael Russell has posted an interesting analysis of just what happened to Ritual.
From the same blog:
Quote:
Many people wondered why I was so harsh on the warez monkeys who grabbed illegal copies of the game. Well, if all of the people who pirated the game and contacted Ritual for tech support had actually purchased the game, it would have paid for the burn rate for two additional people from ship to date. That alone may not have changed the tide for "SiN Episodes," but it would have made the landing a lot softer for a few people...myself included.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: That's what you'll get when you use a system that is notorious for being pirated. I strongly believe that the number of pirated copies would be a lot lesser then the current number if they had decided to ship the game onto a conventional CD/DVD format rather then using Steam.

Those same "warez monkeys" have proven that it is far less complicated to 'distribute' a <5MB large program (read: Steam crack) then distributing several 700 MB CD-ROM discs or one 4.7 GB DVD disc . . .

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Old 01-29-2007, 01:03 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Apprentice View Post
Yes!


No news = bad news. For examples: Duke Nukem forever & Starcraft: Ghost. Titles which have been announced, but never saw the light of day nor even spoken about by their developers and SiN: Episode 2 will have the dubious honour to be added to the list of vaporware . . .


If wishes were horses, my friend . . .
Wow listen to you people, whining that Sin is dead and got, it may be and it may not, does anyone remember a game called prey, people said it would never see the light of day, the boom prey was released, and will I also mention Sin: Episodes it self, that kind of came out of left field, no one even exspected it, they thought SiN would never return, MumboJumbo said basically if they comes a time the will do Sin, man you guys give up to easy. If the fans demand it we can do anything so lets come together and tell MumboJumbo, that we don't want LUXOR III we want SiN, so who's with me!!!

Quote:
Elexis Sinclaire: Your lack of vision is your greatest weakness (MumboJumbo). You should know better than anyone that I get exactly what... I... want.

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Old 01-29-2007, 05:45 AM   #115
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

I, for one, believe it is not completely dead. Ritual may be acquired, but they did say that it is a possibility that S:E may be worked on in the future. I honestly believe that those at Ritual would be interested in salvaging whats left and continuing. I do think spreading the 8 or 9 episodes apart as they said was a bit of a radical idea but I still had some faith in the idea. One thing I did not agree with however was the whole episodic delivery. It sounds cool on the outside, but I figured it wouldn't work too good.

I don't give a damn if anyone disagrees with my positivity either, I'll be keeping my eyes and ears open for any news.

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Old 01-29-2007, 07:50 AM   #116
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That was interesting. Finally we got some info on what was going on. And in the discussion underneath we see why they were so tight-lipped. I guess it's exactly those kinds of things alot of fans don't think about. So it wasn't really bad sales that killed (for now) Sin.
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:04 AM   #117
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Wow listen to you people, whining that Sin is dead and got, it may be and it may not, does anyone remember a game called prey, people said it would never see the light of day, the boom prey was released, and will I also mention Sin: Episodes it self, that kind of came out of left field, no one even exspected it, they thought SiN would never return, MumboJumbo said basically if they comes a time the will do Sin, man you guys give up to easy. If the fans demand it we can do anything so lets come together and tell MumboJumbo, that we don't want LUXOR III we want SiN, so who's with me!!!
I don't whine, I simply state a fact and that fact is, that Sin: Episode 2 will be added to the list of vaporware . . .

It would be foolish for Mumbojumbo to pick up Sin: Episodes in a later stage. If they want to do something with the Sin franchise, they should do it now or at least sooner rather then later while Sin remains somewhat of a hot title.

No-one would be interested in a title that was canned first and picked up several years later plus on top of that, they will have to start from scratch again since the Source engine will be obsolete in a few years time just like the Quake 3 engine is today . . .

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Old 01-29-2007, 11:34 AM   #118
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

One thing I wonder about even after reading Michael's post is the "casual gaming" basis. Ritual never developed casual games, they made action games for the big market. How the hell are they going to adapt? I understand that the acquisition was a matter of money and they didn't really have a choice, but I can't imagine why a casual games company would acquire an action games development team to work for them. It's like telling a metal guitarist to play children songs for a smaller audience on acoustic guitar.

Apart from that, I guess that my initial reaction to the news was overly quick. While I'm sad about Sin's development after this, I don't think I should have bashed Ritual, now seeing how they were practically forced to sacrifice. Recently even I have sacrificed personal stuff to get more money into my household; seems to happen to anyone sometime.
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Old 01-29-2007, 01:04 PM   #119
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One thing I wonder about even after reading Michael's post is the "casual gaming" basis. Ritual never developed casual games, they made action games for the big market. How the hell are they going to adapt?
The same way the people working at MumboJumbo did when they initially split away from Ritual five years ago, I suspect...

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Old 01-29-2007, 03:11 PM   #120
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

Mergers/acquisitions are rarely fun. It will be interesting to see what Ritual adds to Luxor and these other casual games. The Elexis Sinclaire puzzle game

MumboJumbo now owns the IP for SIN. Its up to them to decide what to do with it and when. I won't hold my breath nor will I close the door.

Its too bad Ritual didn't get Multiplayer out before the merger. Might have added to the longevity of the existing game and possibly add enough long-term revenue to make MumboJumbo interested in continuing the series.

In the short term the future of SIN is in the hands of the modders (if there's enough of them out there - wish I knew and had enough time to map ).
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Old 01-29-2007, 04:41 PM   #121
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Yeah, releasing multiplayer, even if not 100% finished, would have been great for keeping the community alive. I can't really see people making arena maps and comparing scores for months to come. (?) Maybe even releasing mp for free, as I mentioned elsewhere (like e.g. Enemy Territory), would help the number of people playing.
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Old 01-29-2007, 04:46 PM   #122
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What good will it do if they release something that isn't 100% finished ?? Bit of a VALVe streak will it become if Ritual start on THAT road . . .

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Old 01-29-2007, 06:02 PM   #123
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Wow listen to you people, whining that Sin is dead and got, it may be and it may not, does anyone remember a game called prey, people said it would never see the light of day, the boom prey was released, and will I also mention Sin: Episodes it self, that kind of came out of left field, no one even exspected it, they thought SiN would never return, MumboJumbo said basically if they comes a time the will do Sin, man you guys give up to easy. If the fans demand it we can do anything so lets come together and tell MumboJumbo, that we don't want LUXOR III we want SiN, so who's with me!!!
I do no think citing Prey as as a reason to abandon logical speculation on the future of Sin is particularly valid. Prey's resurrection from development hell is fairly unprecendented, even ignoring that, it died (temporarily) because the technology wasn't there - it died before it ever got to market. It made sense to try again since the IP was yet unproven.

The Sin IP in contrast has now had two outings, and both were far less than spectacular from both critical and sales standpoints. They weren't even the best games Ritual made. Sin Episode 1 was fairly unprecedented in that it was a sequel to a game that flopped, usually an IP gets only one chance for success. Three chances is unheard of; I don't think any company would find it a particularly smart venture to invest in a third outing at this point. Remember that Sin Episodes only existed because Ritual couldn't get any publishers to fund a Sin 2.
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Old 01-30-2007, 04:58 AM   #124
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What good will it do if they release something that isn't 100% finished ?? Bit of a VALVe streak will it become if Ritual start on THAT road . . .
So if the multiplayer was 99% finished you wouldn't be interested? I'm not talking about releasing something with one map, generic models and no gameplay tweaking.
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Old 01-30-2007, 06:37 AM   #125
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So if the multiplayer was 99% finished you wouldn't be interested? I'm not talking about releasing something with one map, generic models and no gameplay tweaking.
If it is for 99% finished, what's letting them to finish it for the whole 100% rather then releasing a 99% finished product ??

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