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Old 12-23-2006, 12:26 PM   #51
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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Originally Posted by Onden View Post
Technically, he wasn't an ex-Ritual employee at the time - at least not publically. The announcement of his leaving was made 2 days after the podcast, but obviously at that point his leaving was already in the works so to speak.


As far as I know, they've hired no new employees, merely shifted existing ones. I've only seen the major press releases though, was this revealed on a forum or similar?
Your first statement serves no purpose in your argument at all so I will ignore that, moving onto your second one, Ritual hired a lot of new people to start SiN Episodes, I looked when Steve Nix left and noticed a lot of people who weren't there when they were working on EF2. I also really doubt that they would quite a project that they want to work on so badly.

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Old 12-23-2006, 06:36 PM   #52
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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Yep, that's the one i was referring. Other bla blas was just your opinion, and i don't share it 100% HL2 source engine is not a godlike, it has it's pros and cons.
Oh I agree the Source engine isn't perfect, never said it was, but the things Tom Mustaine said about it...I don't think it would have been any different with any other engine. No engine is perfect and they would have had to deal with updates and comparisons to other games regardless of the engine they used, do you not agree? It seemed almost like he was just looking to make excuses and place blame on others.

You said you do not think it was a smart idea to use the Source engine, what would have been a smart idea then?

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I almost wish they had just took 3 years and made a full game.
Well remember what started this whole thing. They could not get a publisher to invest in a full length Sin game and so decided to do episodes themselves.

Although Tom Mustaine said Sin Episodes sales matched their conservative estimates - matching conservative estimates isn't exactly what companies deam of. Perhaps after two less than stellar outings they're deciding the re-evaluate whether it's worth continuing the Sin IP instead of moving on to something potentially more fruitful.

It's a shame if that's the case, I think the Sin IP is quite original, and with better execution it good do quite well. However, perhaps because of the nature of the IP they can't really find a focus for it, and good but flawed games are the result.

Of course I thought they should have rebooted the series by doing a full remake/reimagining of Sin first. It's tough to get people to buy into sequels when they never played the first game.

Last edited by Onden : 12-23-2006 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 12-23-2006, 11:49 PM   #53
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

Matching conservative estimates may not be spectacular, but it's enough to keep them afloat typically. Mind you, matching sales estimates doesn't mean that development time for the next title will be what they expected, and perhaps that's why they had to shift more staff...especially given that some important staff left on their own.

I'll worry when I have reason to worry. It may not be business as usual, but it isn't that unusual either considering.
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Old 12-24-2006, 06:26 AM   #54
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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I don't think it would have been any different with any other engine. No engine is perfect and they would have had to deal with updates and comparisons to other games regardless of the engine they used, do you not agree?
Yes, i do agree that.

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You said you do not think it was a smart idea to use the Source engine, what would have been a smart idea then?
I would have suggested them using ID Software's Engine, since Ritual is more familiar with it, like in the previous games they have made a pretty good job with it. But i do understand their choise to use Steam and HL2 source, and as i am some sort of fanatic Sin player, i'm more than happy to have an opportunity to play Sin again with whatever engine. Still i can't beat the feeling that i'm just playing a some sort of a HL2mod, i like to play HL2 but Sin shouldn't be like that, Sin is Sin and HL2 is HL2.


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Of course I thought they should have rebooted the series by doing a full remake/reimagining of Sin first. It's tough to get people to buy into sequels when they never played the first game.
That's the one i really agree with you at 101%

And Merry christmas
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Old 12-24-2006, 02:54 PM   #55
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

I did realise that i ain't gonna play SiN Episodes 2 before army... well maybe after army it's finished


Ei oo papaa näkyny irkissä vähää aikaa =)
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Old 12-25-2006, 06:27 AM   #56
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

Since no one has confirmed anything it´s still rumors and speculation. I didn´t really like the idea of episodes and I don´t like steam but since I´m a fan of the first game I bought Episodes #1 to give my support to it. We all wanted alot of stuff and I think we got some pretty fun stuff in the first part of episodes but I think the lack of multiplayer support made alot of people wait for episodes#2. I have no idea how sales went but I´m sure it would have been higher with a multiplayer part in there. Hope we get to continue the story and do some killing with eachother in the future !!

Merry Cristmas to all of you Sinners out there ! !

Last edited by LongFo : 12-25-2006 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 12-28-2006, 08:35 PM   #57
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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I would have suggested them using ID Software's Engine, since Ritual is more familiar with it, like in the previous games they have made a pretty good job with it.
On the other hand, the Source engine is derived from iD's engine series. So while it may not be as familiar to people who worked on the Quake II/III engine as the Doom III engine would be, it shouldn't be as dissimilar as, say, the Unreal engine.

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Old 12-28-2006, 11:25 PM   #58
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

My two cents:

Unfotunately all of these suspicions that SiN Ep2 is dead are just that, suspicions. If no one has officially come out and said "Its Cancelled" then there's still a chance that its going to keep on. HOWEVER! This does NOT mean they AREN'T considering shutting the project down as it could have potentially cost them more to produce the game than what they got in sales. It costs quite a bit of money to make a game; copy protection, a little funds to make up for piracy (yes they do include that into their estimates), Steam download support, shipping costs for hard copies (plus the hard copies themselves), coders, voice actors, modelers, mappers, testers, directors, texturing people, the list goes on. So in the end Ritual could have seen far less then they initally expected. So don't throw out the possibility that it will be canceled, but on the same note don't think that it won't continue on.

To summerize that; I'm not believing anything until the Offical word is given.

Now, for the game engine argument; Doom 3 engine... I honestly could not see that being used for SiN, its too pretty and glossy looking. SiN is gritty and dirty, so Source actually compliments the feel of the game and can handle a few more advanced physics features than Doom 3's could. Using FEAR's engine (or I should probably just go ahead and say Riddicks as that, I believe, is where it first appeared) might do the trick but I felt confined in a lot of their maps, like it just didn't want to have big areas or it would make the game go crazy with a high amount of processing needed. With the lack of a traditional skybox in Source, it allows for more varying areas between maps so its not constantly in doors. With Source they can do Freeport justice like in the tower area... God I loved that view... Along with a few corpses here and there.

Now, there are a few points I could be wrong at and I apologize for it, but I still feel that they did make a pretty good choice by going with Source rather than another.

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Old 12-29-2006, 06:10 PM   #59
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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I wonder if Badman knows what's going on with episode 2. If he does, maybe he can tell us what's going on or possibly Normality can tell us?
I doubt that that will happen. Until someone from Ritual comes here and tell otherwise, we simply have to assume that it has been cancelled . . .

Before people start with "that's not true" and other blablabla, they know about this (semi) official community (people are being linked to from their own official homepage), some of them who hasn't jumped the boat already, are still registered here so why don't they make an announcement here on the forums telling the community (and guests) that Episode 2 is still on track ??

Guess that none of the developers today are forthcomming though they have stated otherwise . . .

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Old 12-30-2006, 06:40 AM   #60
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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Also, hot564321, don't tell someone to shut up and then follow that with "everyone is entitled to comment on this" because it shows you don't think logically.
No, it was quite logically, as I was entitled comment on the subject and subject matter.

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Old 12-30-2006, 08:09 AM   #61
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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No, it was quite logically, as I was entitled comment on the subject and subject matter.
"Its quite logical"

Anyway, no its not, because it was hippocritical to say "Shut up" and then say directly after "Everyone is entitled to their opinion" as you were just trying to supress someone's opinion by telling them to shut up. So no, it wasn't logical in the least. Its like watching a kid hit another kid and then going up to them and popping them on the back of the head only to say "Hey, we don't hit around here." See? Doesn't make sense does it?

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Old 12-30-2006, 10:21 AM   #62
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Lightbulb Re: Ep2. Canned?

Geeez....you guys need to relax.

Ritual will make an announcement when it makes sense to do so.
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Old 12-30-2006, 10:24 AM   #63
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

You know what I think? They are getting a LOT of free advertising... Might be a smart play to uphold the silence and then BAM! "Sin Episodes confirmed NOT dead!" It would be all over the net.

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Old 12-30-2006, 12:51 PM   #64
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Wink Re: Ep2. Canned?

Quote:
Once Emergence is out of the door, Ritual is already half way to completing their next episode, which means a shorter development time between each episode, which at the time of writing, is slated for six months.
http://www.ritualistic.com/content.p...o_episodic.php

Like most of you I hope this holds true.
(I didn't post this to be rude.)

All the best,
Mark
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Old 12-30-2006, 01:06 PM   #65
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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Ritual will make an announcement when it makes sense to do so.
Surely, after most if not all of the public faces associated with the project have left and the public is thinking that you're going under would be a time that it makes sense to do so?

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Old 12-30-2006, 01:12 PM   #66
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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Surely, after most if not all of the public faces associated with the project have left and the public is thinking that you're going under would be a time that it makes sense to do so?
By that time it's more like "Let's tell the public that is has been cancelled" ... :{ :{

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Old 12-30-2006, 01:14 PM   #67
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

Oh my God! Jo, did you just correct someone's grammar, and then proceed in the next sentence to make about 5 mistakes yourself? That has got to be a record

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Old 12-30-2006, 05:16 PM   #68
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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You know what I think? They are getting a LOT of free advertising... Might be a smart play to uphold the silence and then BAM! "Sin Episodes confirmed NOT dead!" It would be all over the net.
That seems rather unlikely; despite the saying, there is such a thing as bad press. Letting people think your project is troubled/dead is not good regardless of whether or not it eventually comes out. Daikatana, for example, surprised a lot of people when it was released, but surprising them didn't change their opinion of the game - which they had already made up before playing it based on it's storied development.

No, I think we can assume something is up with Sin Episode 2. The real question is what that something is: a delay, a move to a more typical larger game release, or an outright cancellation with the Sin IP being shelved once again.

The latter two seem the more likely, were it something as simple as a delay one would think they would have announced that by now.
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Old 12-30-2006, 05:44 PM   #69
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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Oh my God! Jo, did you just correct someone's grammar, and then proceed in the next sentence to make about 5 mistakes yourself? That has got to be a record
Psh, I never said I was perfect, nor would I ever considering my spelling is about on par with ninth grade anyway, and I wasn't meaning it as a "OMG! Ur such a n00b at grammur!" sorta thing. Whenever I correct something like that it's mostly because I picked up on it is all.

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Old 12-30-2006, 06:30 PM   #70
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

I doubt the increase in press or advertising makes any difference anyways. If you take a deep look into the commentary/reviews on the SiN IP and its recent news on other game sites, for about every one interested party you have ten who thought the game sucked in so many words. It didn't exactly impress the FPS audience, if it goes out it will be with a whimper.

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Old 12-31-2006, 02:17 AM   #71
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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Using FEAR's engine (or I should probably just go ahead and say Riddicks as that, I believe, is where it first appeared).
Are you high? Seriously. Both Riddick and FEAR used their own engine.
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Old 12-31-2006, 02:36 AM   #72
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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On the other hand, the Source engine is derived from iD's engine series. So while it may not be as familiar to people who worked on the Quake II/III engine as the Doom III engine would be, it shouldn't be as dissimilar as, say, the Unreal engine.
Yeah, i know, but it's still derived for valves needs, that's why sin does seem like just an another HL2-clone, and that's the one i'm not so happy with, though i have enjoyed playing half life 1&2. The real feeling about playing SIN, is somehow missing, of cource it's just my opinion about it. But since they decided to make it that way, i really expect they keep continue with what they have allready started. A lil bit more away from the HL style, and it's a winner, then it's SIN like it should be.
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Old 12-31-2006, 04:36 AM   #73
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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why don't they make an announcement here on the forums telling the community (and guests) that Episode 2 is still on track ??
Maybe because:
a. They are not with the company any more and have no idea what the current situation is?
b. They have an NDA to not discuss company info, and if they do they are open to a law suit?

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Old 12-31-2006, 06:27 AM   #74
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

I don't think Source qualifies as derived from the ID engines either. HL1s engine used heavily modified parts of it, but Source was built from the ground up...I believe after Valve acquired Lithtechs lead programmer. (I say I believe because it could have already been a work in progress when that happened anyway. I'm not interested enough to hunt down more info right now.)

Last edited by Standoff : 12-31-2006 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 12-31-2006, 08:29 AM   #75
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Default Re: Ep2. Canned?

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Are you high? Seriously. Both Riddick and FEAR used their own engine.
Well, even if it wasn't Riddick's/Starbreeze's engine, you can see where one might get that impression with the same look and feel minus the lack of sneak attacks.

And seriously, do you need to go as far as asking if I'm high? Cause it certainly seems like an awefully petty thing to say for something so small :P

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